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| Irie
FM Interview With Gadman of the 12 Tribes of
Israel |
| This
interview was originally held by Jamaican
Radio Station IRIE FM, and it has been
transcribed by Messian Dread for authorized online
publication on RAS ADAM WEBSITE and here on
the Dubroom.
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Greetings in that divine name of our lord and
Saviour Jesus Christ , who has been revealed to
us, in that wonderful personality of his Imperial
Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie 1st. Greetings
through the Twelve Tribes of Israel , which was
once lost and scattered abroad, and has now been
founded in the Island of Jamaica by our beloved
Prophet brother Gad, and functioning world wide.
I all so greet you in that orthodox faith,
which is not a function of writs and writes, but a
mystical co-operating function of ones heart, in
plain words, to be born again. INTERVIEW with Dr.
Vernon Carrington:
The Beloved PROPHET GAD
July 13th,1997
on Jamaican radio station IRIE FM's Running
African
Interview by Ms. Andrea Williams
Transcribed by Messian Dread of the Netherlands
Printed with kind permission of Brother
Gad(Manchester U.K. April 1998)
The resistance to slavery, colonial domination,
and racism have been the struggles of the sons
Inerview by Andrea Williams for IRIE FM
The resistance to slavery, colonial domination,
and racism have been the struggles of the sons and
daughters of Africa in the Diaspora since we were
taken to the new world. African resistance began
on the slave ships and Continues up to the
present. The right to basic human rights were not
Guaranteed after the emancipation act went into
effect in 1834 and the chance of former slaves to
now live as free men and women in dignity and to
develop a human potential to the fullest had to be
fought tooth and nail against former slave
masters.
The list of martyrs for black liberation are many,
and the struggle for complete freedom and
self-determination have come in all shapes and
forms. One of the most glorious moments of our
struggle was during the organizational work of the
honorable Marcus Garvey and the U.N.I.A. which
linked the effort and the continent of Africa for
majority rule, equal rights and justice and the
struggles in the Diaspora with the now famous
words: "Africa for the Africans, those at
home and those abroad. We should move forward also
with one God, one aim and one destiny".
In 1930 in Ethiopia, Ras Tafari Makonnen was
crowned King of Kings and Lord of Lords with the
throne-name Haile Selassie the First and a new
chapter in the struggle, one with religious
connotations, was opened. God was finally real and
the Christian doctrine was no longer the monopoly
of white missionaries with headquarters in Rome.
The bible was studied and any reference to
Ethiopia took on added significance.
Ethiopia, being attacked by Italy at the start of
the second world war galvanized interest and
concern in the struggle of good over evil. During
this period, the Ethiopian World Federation was
formed in the United States of America under the
guidance of the Emperor Haile Selassie the First,
to unite the support for the restoration of
Ethiopia's sovereignty. After the war, and the
defeat of Italy, the Emperor showed his
appreciation by donating land at Shashamane, to
anyone of African descent in the west who wanted
to return to the mother-land. Time, however, was
creating Africans with various aspirations. New
generations were producing new societies of
Africans in the West.
Independent nations were beginning to form and
black majority rule was imminent. In Jamaica, the
reverence of Emperor Haile Selassie continued to
create distinguishable movements, such as
Nyabinghi, the Ethiopian National Congress or Bobo
dreads, the Twelve Tribes of Israel.
The Twelve Tribes of Israel, founded by the
Prophet Gad, has added another dimension in the
liberation movement, to include liberation for all
races through the teaching of the bible, and the
acceptance of Jesus Christ. Membership is not
limited, but inclusive. By identifying the
spiritual sons of Jacob and finding truth for
oneself through reading the bible "a chapter
a day", man can find salvation. The divine
lineage continues through the Ethiopian Monarchy,
the seed of David, of which it is said, "The
scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a
lawgiver from beneath his feet, until Shiloh comes
and unto Him will be the gathering of the
people."
Running African caught up with the Prophet Gad at
his Hopewood home, and for the first time ever, he
consented to speak publicly on radio!
Can you tell us first of the history of the Twelve
Tribes?
"I was being converted in 1961 and I read the
Bible from Genesis to Revelation twice. But I was
being sent, I was called and sent, resurrected and
sent to do this work and when I read the bible I
strongly see that there is a gap that is there to
be filled and I believe that I am one of them that
send to do it Do the work."
Where did the movement start, where were you at
the time?
"At Trenchtown. But I was called when I was
living at Outlook Avenue, that is at Rockfort
Garden."
What form did it take, how did you convince people
of what it is that you were sent to do?
" Well, I keep telling them that if they read
the bible a chapter a day, they will see that what
I'm doing, if it is right or wrong. Well, majority
read the bible and them say, what I am saying is
there, so they be a part of it."
How is the different tribes identified, how did
you know who was Simeon and who was Levi and so
on...
"Yes, well there's a record in the bible, if
you see it you see, that Ruben represent the eye,
and Simeon represent the ears, and such like, it
is all there, but there is a part there that the
maid, that the maid have two children and the
other one have two. So that is how come the Twelve
Tribes of Israel. It's all recorded there you
know. I have seen most of things I'm doing in the
bible."
Okay. Some more about the Tribes. and how they
identify themselves.....
" By a month. Each month, like Ruben
represent April, Simeon represent May,"
Glad You said that. I'm Simeon. (laughs)
" And June represent Levy and Judah."
How did you make the connection with the tribes
and the months. How did you know that May was
Simeon?
Alright. (At this point Gad points to body parts
that correspond with the different Tribes) Well,
you see, I mean, Rueben, you see, so you know that
is April, an your Ear : that is May, June, July,
August, September, October, which is your back,
November your penis, October, November, December:
the knee, January, February, and March."
Alright. The 12 Tribes of Israel have been accused
of being elitist, catering to the middle class and
whites. Is that a fair criticism?
"No that is not a fair criticism. Because we
are not catering for only one set of people, out
of one blood is all nation, so it is all called,
but we know that not everybody is going to see
what we are all doing."
So this talk..because I know a lot of people are
listening now are saying to themselves: But no, we
always did think that only a certain type of
people were members of The 12 Tribes of Israel,
and isn't it interesting that a Rastafarian group
cared, when most Rastafarians are saying:
"Down with the with the white
downpressors" that 12 Tribes of Israel
actually embrace all races.
"That is correct. We read in the Bible that
out of one blood all nation, so it would be wrong
for us to say only one race, we wouldn't survive
that way, God make all of us, so, that is where I
stand."
The 12 Tribes of Israel is seen as closer to
Christianity than other Rastafarian groups. Is
there a basic difference in the doctrine?
"Yes there is a basic difference because we
see Christ, and that die and rose again, and that
die for our sin, we see that person. So that is,
you know, a different teaching, because is not
many see this teaching, that Christ is the
person."
I want to remind you that we're speaking with the
Prophet Gad who is the leader, the head, the
founder of the 12 Tribes of Israel. We want to
move on now to the doctrine. Recently we've had
much debate on this program "Running
African" and other programs about the
Divinity of His Majesty the Emperor Haile Selassie
as it relates the return of Jesus Christ. What are
your thoughts on the matter?
"Well, Christ is to return and sit on the
Throne of David, so I strongly believe that, you
know, Christ is going to come and sit on the
Throne of David."
I want you to.. You said something very important
here and something that may disturb the
Rastafarian Movement in Jamaica. Christ, You're
talking about the return of Christ.
"Yes I am talking about the return of Christ
who is going to sit on the throne of David."
Are you making a differentiation between Jesus
Christ and Haile Selassie.
"Yes I am making a differentiation. Because
Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. And
even after His Majesty say, Him saved not by the
man character but by the blood of Jesus
Christ."
Alright, let's move on. The doctrinal principals
of the 12 Tribes of Israel at the outset of this
program. I said that you as a head of a
Rastafarian organization yourself, you don't wear
dreadlocks. Do you have specific principals as it
relates to hair, diet and the reading of the
Bible?
"When I read the Bible I see you know, there
is not a hair-doctrine. Yet we know that man, you
know, him hair is too long, but there is no law to
compel him to trim. So as for me now, I say
everyone have the right to wear him dreadlocks as
long as him want to wear it. And nobody shouldn't
have anything to say about it. I read the bible
and I choose, prefer to, pole your hair. When you
pole your hair, you comb your hair, like I don't
trim, but I pole. So you have some of the
dreadlocks dread and you have some that pole them
hair."
I have heard it said even on this station IRIE FM,
that if you don't have your dreadlocks you can't
go to Zion. How do you respond to that?
"There is not a hair doctrine. You see, by
grace through Christ, so hair can't save
you."
What about diet?
"Diet. Well, it is already recorded in the
book what you must eat from what you are not to
eat. Yet, a man free to do what him want to do.
But it's specifically recorded there in the bible
what to eat (ie:cloven footed)and what not to
eat." (that through the cut?)
I know members of the 12 Tribes of Israel; that I
have come in contact with, one of the differences
that I found is that 12 Tribes of Israel members
will eat meat, for example, whereas most other
Rastafarians are vegetarians.
"Yes well, there is so many things to eat
before meat it was vegetables, afterward, you see,
that you must eat this meat and you must eat that
meat and you mustn't eat that meat. But before it
was vegetables. And then afterward Noah and the
flood then now we get meat to eat. And separate
from what not to eat."
Alright. Many argue, but before we get to that,
let us look at the reading of the bible, because I
know that one of your main principals is reading
the bible. Tell me about that.
"Yes well, it show to me, His Majesty even
give we a little hint , that in the Bible you
know, Him glorify in the bible, and from a little
child Him was taught to read the bible. Now, when
I look I see, that to understand fully, it is good
to read timely and to read for yourself. A chapter
a day it is preferable, still anyone free that
they can the bible how they want to read it."
You've been in this movement for very long time,
you're the founder. Does that mean that you have
continued to read the bible a chapter a day until
now, so you must have read it a couple of times.
"Yes I read it a couple of times, twice, and
now again I go through it. But I don't read it as
much as, you know"
Many argue that the bible is not 100% reliable but
that the reading of the bible actually is a main
principal of yours and of the 12 Tribes of Israel.
How do you respond to the skeptics who say that
the bible is not reliable and burn the bible so to
speak.
"Anytime it show that you'll have them curse
God, curse the king, and such a like, so I don't
expect for them to accept certain things, but
those who accept, well, give thanks to them."
Moving on to rights of passage. How does the
movement, the 12 Tribes of Israel address birth
within the movement, the adolescence period, when
the child is a teenager, and marriage and also
death?
"Well, if I could understand clearly, I know
that, you have a birth, and after birth, you have
child, adolescence, and when they grow up they're
supposed to married, and after they marry they're
supposed to help their fellow man, and when death
come, it come. But right now we're trying to avoid
that death business. But when that come, you can't
run from it. As for us, we don't die. We only
sleep, waiting for the resurrection."
Are there any specific ceremonies concerning for
instance birth. Is a child within the 12 Tribes of
Israel christened or blessed by you as a prophet?
"I don't do any christening. I wasn't told to
Christen so I don't do any christening. Them can
Christen when your born you have to Christen and
then.."
Not necessarily within any strict rules and so on.
What about marriage are there any specific..?
"Marriage is a holy vow. And I know that
marriage is right. So if you see a partner and you
love them, get married. That is as far as I'm
concerned on marriage"
Okay, moving on. The 12 Tribes of Israel is
currently not having regular meetings. When can we
expect the resumption of these meetings?
"We were discussing about it, I think the
time has come for it to start. But we was
organizing for years and keeping a lot of
meetings, so we take a break, a rest. Cause the
same teaching over and over, so we take a rest but
soon de we hope an trust that we open back to
proceed as we was before, and then taking back
some of the members who would like to be a
part."
Do you have any idea how soon, within a couple of
months, or anything like that?
"Not yet. I can't say it. Probably a little
more, but not right at the moment."
How does one who is interested in becoming a
member of the 12 Tribes of Israel, how does one do
that?
"They have to wait until we announce the time
when we are going to take in members and then they
can."
So listen out for that The monarchy. Discussions
on the monarchy have served within the Rastafarian
movement to separate the movement. Many see Haile
Selassie as the final king. How does the 12 Tribes
of Israel view the continuation of the monarchy in
relation to the current political climate in
Ethiopia?
"Well, His Majesty won't be the final king,
cause he is not here now, and we have other kings
to come, right, so, as for me, I strongly believe,
that the monarchy will establish, when, due
time."
So Haile Selassie, contrary to what a lot of other
people are saying, is not the final king?
"No, he is not the final king."
Well, could you tell a little bit about the
succession, then?
"The succession His Majesty you know him name
Amha Selassie already, as the heir to the throne,
and he is not at the moment there, and him also
name Yacob, but Yacob is there now, so we are
looking for the speedily return of Yacob to
Ethiopia."
How does this fit in with the teaching of, not
necessarily of the 12 Tribes of Israel, but of
Rastafarians in general, who, because of the
(well, at first you answered that anyway about the
divinity of Haile Selassie and you've actually
made a distinction between Haile Selassie and
Jesus Christ). But many Rastafarians don't see
anything outside of Haile Selassie which means
that he is the final king to sit upon the throne,
how do we resolve that?
"Well, I have said before, he's not the final
king, but I strongly believe that Christ is going
to sit upon the throne, but HIM His Majesty is not
the final king, you have more kings, because Amha
Selassie is there, he is not there, and then you
have Yacob supposed to be seated shortly."
Do you see the monarchy being restored in
Ethiopia, as a matter of fact, because what is
happening in Ethiopia now, we know that Amha
Selassie tried to go back recently, we don't know
what happened with that, he didn't go back but do
you see the restoration of the monarchy in
Ethiopia?
"At Now they don't accept the monarchy, but
at least there is an amount of people is there
that looking forward, because that is the only
person they believe could able to get back the
unity of the Ethiopian people."
How do you see it happening, the restoration of
the monarchy?
"When the time come, you know, we will
overturn and overturn, and who's right it is them
will give it to them, so, when the fullness of
time come, we don't know when , but we're sure
that it must happen."
Is this according to prophecy? That the monarchy
must be restored?
"Oh yes, Oh yes."
Is the monarchy a dinosaur in the age of democracy
do you think? and could it be could it be anything
more than a constitutional monarchy?
"Well I don't fully overstand that,"
Right now, when Amha Selassie was trying to
return, the last time, he was told that he could
only come back as a constitutional monarch with no
powers whatsoever. Do you see anything else
happening apart from that, or do you see the
monarchy restored at such a point, where the
monarchy is once again as it was in the days of
Haile Selassie, ruling in Ethiopia
"Well, I keep saying over and over that when
the time come, then we sure that we are going to
have a king to seat up. It is going to take some
time, but he is going to be seated for sure."
Rumors have been circulating that Prince Zere
Yacob is mentally deranged and therefore not fit
to succeed. What light can you shed on this
matter?
"Well I bredda Gad don't know him as somebody
that is mentally disturbed. He was here the last
time and nobody see him and such a like, him is
functioning normal as far as I understand, when I
left him in Manchester. But I don't see him as a
deranged person. It really, you know,
unbelievable."
I must point out at this point, I don't know if
you want me to do this, but Zere Yacob is very
close to the 12 tribes of Israel.
"Oh yes he is very close. He's .... with
bredrin them and sister in Manchester."
Is he a member of the 12 Tribes of Israel?
"He's a member of the 12 Tribes of Israel
yes"
Ermias, prince Ermias the nephew of Amha Selassie,
will visit Jamaica in August, what is his position
in the royal family?
"I have not much knowledge about him but I
read that he is one of the Crown Counsels, that is
as far as I know. I don't say further what he is
doing and what he is saying, but I do no have much
knowledge about him, but I know that he is one of
the Crown Counsels."
has Ermias been in contact with you?
"No we haven't spoken and I don't know him
and he don't know me."
Have you been officially informed of his visit in
August?
"Yes, when I say officially I mean I read
this, our document there before that he was
planning to come, and now it's time for him to
arrive to be here in August."
The future of the monarchy. Is it a part of the
doctrine of 12 Tribes of Israel, that the monarchy
must be physical restored, you're touched on that
before that it is prophecy, but is it a part of
your teaching?
"Yes, that is a part our teaching that the
monarchy must be restored, just like how the sun
and the moon and the stars is there, that nobody
can remove them, same way, monarchy must
restore."
The 12 Tribes of Israel currently has the largest
settlement on Shashamane. Is Ethiopia the final
home and what about the rest of Africa?
"Just Shashamane is not the final home. The
whole of Africa, because One King shall rule over
them all. And also, the whole of Africa,
especially Jerusalem."
Okay, you say the whole of Africa, especially
Jerusalem, and I am sure a lot of people are
saying "but Jerusalem is not Africa".
"Yeah, Jerusalem is Africa. Jerusalem is a
part of Africa is only certain things happen, and
it break away. But there is no argument that
Jerusalem is not a part of Africa, we are
sure!"
So when we speak of a new Jerusalem, what are we
talking of?
"When we are talking about a new Jerusalem,
we are talking about Jerusalem in Asia Minor. New
Jerusalem is a different thing all entirely,
definition."
I wanted to look just a little bit more at that,
Jerusalem being the final home, all of Africa,
especially Jerusalem. How is that, if you will,
how will that work? How will that happen?
"Consider they take out a lot of Ethiopians
there if you notice the history show you that they
always were saying that the people in Ethiopia is
not the Jews. Alright? But then suddenly there is
a changes, that them is the Jews, them take out
most of them and carry them Jerusalem. So we see
everything clear there that the people who is
Israel and was in Ethiopia, them ancestor was from
Jerusalem, and them send them back. So here is
some of us out here, now it was quite interesting
that, those who them take from there, and they
carried there, they say they are the tribe of Dan,
so them might then identify themself, as one of
the tribes, of Dan. The people them who leave and
go to Jerusalem, that them take out from Eritria,
Falashas, yeah."
Okay, who should lead the repatriation exercise,
because there are so many different organizations
all over the world, African organizations,
non-African organizations, but how involved should
they be in helping black people who want to go
back to Africa.?
"The first thing the OAU supposed to be the
countries that come together and help voice for
the return of the people in the western hemisphere
back to Africa. I strongly believe they supposed
to should be playing a part to help we to come
home, who want to come."
What about reparations from Europe, from America,
from Britain?
"Yes, well, we are going to need help
because, you know, the ship is there, the plane is
there, so we're looking for them to help to
transport us back as even them said that they say
the only thing to do now is away back the people
them, and people that them send away, those are
the people that help back the country."
So we get to back to who should lead, who should
lead this exercise, this back to Africa movement.
Who do you think should lead that?
"Well the Rastafarian must come together and
elect a person to represent the body. And then out
of that them know we can able to write, to these
different people and to tell them that we are
united. We would like them to help us."
The Shashamane land-grant is still in effect?
"The Shashamane land-grant is still in effect
but there is a lot of things to clear up within
the settlement."
Do you want to elaborate on that, some of the we
need to clear up?
"Not at the moment."
Alright, so you say it is still in effect but
there is things that need to be clear up. Now what
is the 12 Tribes position on the EWF claim that
all settlers, who of the land, that people who
settle in Shashamane are squatters, if they do not
settle through the permission of the EWF?
"I really surprise them to know that they are
saying that who is there on the land, squatters.
How can African going home, going back home, can
become as a squatters, it is unbelievable.
Squatters, impossible."
Is there need for Rastafarians to organize and
centralize?
"Oh yes, there is an urgent need for the
Rastafarian to organize. Yes, there is"
How do you think this process can begin?
"Well, somebody that is capable of call a
meeting and if they're sincere, they call a
meeting and hope and trust that from there we can
get somewhere."
But you as a leader of the 12 Tribes of Israel you
see a great need. Do you see yourself playing any
part in that?
"I strongly believe that I will help and play
my little part that I can as a person with
organizing over the years when that process, you
know.."
Alright, should there be a political as well as a
spiritual arm of Rastafarians?
"There's political movements, it is there,
but I am not here to deal with it. I am not
fighting them. I am here to deal with the
spiritual part of it. Not politically."
What are your thoughts on the Rastafarian
Centralization Organization, the RCO ?
"I have no knowledge at the moment I only
know that them is here so is only left now to see
what they are saying, before I can give a definite
statement about them, but I have no knowledge
presently."
The RCO, they have been around for a little while.
Haven't they contacted you officially, informing
you of the organization and inviting you to join
with them in the centralization process?
"It came here they send a letter inviting us
to help with the school, but we never get to it,
so that is the only letter that I know I have so
far but I don't get any letter them invited me and
such to come."
That is quite interesting that that is happening,
that we have a Rastafarian Centralization
Organization, and that the head of the biggest,
the most organized Rastafarian movement in the
world has not been invited to be a part in that
centralization process. If you were invited, would
you talk with them and see what's happening?
"Yes, I believe the time must come for me to
play a part of, you know, I think I would go and
hope and trust that they proceed orderly and they
have no commotion, because I don't deal the
commotion, the confusion. I strongly believe that
the time has come for Rastafarian to come
together."
I feel very good to hear that. The 12 Tribes of
Israel have undoubtedly the most organized body of
Rastafarians in the world, as I have said before,
what role should the movement play in organizing
Rastafarians in Jamaica, and in the rest of the
world?
"Well, at least we are organizing for a good
while now, we have the organ, the 12 Tribes of
Israel, in Jamaica, it start here, it is in
Ethiopia, it is in the United States, it is in
United Kingdom, Sweden, it is Germany, New
Zealand, Tobago, Ghana, Australia, Kenya, and
Grenada."
That is 12 Tribes.....
"That is 12 Tribes organization in these
other country, and some other country, it is still
there, but..."
I am thinking that since the 12 Tribes has done so
well in organizing the 12 Tribes of Israel, is
there a particular role now that the 12 Tribes
could play in helping then to organize the rest of
the Rastafarians?
"Yes, well, I just said a while ago that I
think that I could help, to play a part, to give a
helping hand, not as somebody to come to take over
nothing, but as a helping hand, to help organize
them. So we're looking forward....."
The Prophet Gad. The man who boldly declares Jesus
Christ. The head of a Rastafarian movement who
doesn't wear dreadlocks. The man who coined the
phrase: "A chapter a day". The Kebra
Negast, or the book of The Glory of Kings of
Ethiopia, has been in existence for at least a
thousand years and contains the true history of
the origin of the Solomonic line of kings in
Ethiopia. It is as the ultimate authority and the
history of the conversion of Ethiopians from the
worship of the sun, moon and stars, to that of our
Lord God of Israel.
Jesus Christ, and Menelik, the son of Solomon and
the queen of Sheba, were sons of Solomon, and so,
they were akin to each other. But Christ is the
Son of God, and therefore, being the Kinsman of
Christ, Menelik was divine.
The Kebra Negast asserts that the kings of
Ethiopia who were descended from Menelik were of
divine origin, and that their words and deeds were
those of God's. Haile Selassie , a devoted
Christian, reflected that divine nature and
maintained the struggle of good over evil
continually inspiring the Rastaman.
end of transcript
Printed with kind permission of Brother Gad
(Manchester U.K. April 1998)
|
COMMENTS:
We have added an MP3 file of the interview as
well. The sound quality is not really that great,
but it's quite audible.
CLICK
HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE MP3 FILE
The interview is important, and crucial, as is
shown by the fact that it is mentioned in many
discussions, it is also used and quoted in the
book DREAD JESUS, which covers Christology within
Rastafari.
The leader and the head of the biggest Rastafarian
Organization, the 12 Tribes Of Israel, is not a
person to give man interviews. In fact this is one
of the few known interviews in which he speaks out
about some crucial issues. Some remarkable things
are said in this interview, that cause some
controversy. Gadman is speaking out in the
Interview about the person of His Majesty, and
that he sees Selassie as different from Christ,
because Christ is the Savior and Selassie is the
King, but not God.
The 12 Tribes Of Israel is the biggest Rastafarian
Organization in the world. Bob Marley was a member
and so are many more well known artists. Gadman,
not many know this, originally formed the well
know vocal trio "Israel Vibration". The
organization has been painted for years as
teaching, that Selassie is Christ returned. Now it
seems that this is not the case, and therefore I
think that this interview is very important. You
can see that many things are written about
Rastafari that are not neccesarily so.
There is no official website of the 12 Tribes of
Israel, and the organization also does not really
publish that much things. So it is possible, that
many people think the 12 Tribes of Israel preach
Selassie to be God.
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